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Sunday, July 9, 2006
What's Wrong with Martin Luther?
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I write this because I appeal to all my Lutheran and Protestant readers to completely accept Our Lord Jesus Christ. I beg you to accept the Catholic faith to receive the true Sacraments for your salvation. I do not write this priding myself because I belong to the Catholic faith because I was not always a member of the Church. I write this because I want everyone to be members of the One Body of Christ. I want my Lord's prayer to be answered. I do not want Him offended.

Our Lord, before His painful passion, prayed, "Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are. When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you. I speak this in the world so that they may share my joy completely. I gave them your word, and the world hated them, because they do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that you keep them from the evil one. They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world. Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world. And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth. I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me" (John 17: 11b-21)

Please read Exsurge Domine by Pope Leo X, issued June 15, 1520.

What's wrong with Luther?

One key figure in the Protestant Reformation was Martin Luther, a Catholic monk, who, led astray by private judgment, set himself against the Faith held for 1500 years. He decided that all Christians before him had been in error. Is it possible to believe that Jesus founded a Church to mislead the world, and then after 1500 years approved of over 500 contradictory church denominations founded by men? But, you may say, the Protestant Church is the Church of Christ, purified of error, and only this purified form dates from Luther. I answer that you must choose between Luther and Christ. Jesus said His Church would never teach error (John 14:26); Luther says it did teach error. If Luther is right, Christ is wrong; if Christ is right, Luther and all his followers are wrong.

Luther's chief errors are contained in the following propositions: (1) There is no supreme teaching power in the Church. (2) The temporal sovereign has supreme power in matters ecclesiastical. (3) There are no priests. (4) All that is to be believed is in the Bible. (5) Each one may interpret Holy Scripture as he likes. (6) Faith alone saves, good works are superfluous. (7) Man lost his free will by original sin. (8) There are no saints, no Christian sacrifice, no sacrament of confession, and no purgatory.

Following are some significant excerpts from Luther's writings and lectures, as compared with the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Taken from the hook CHRIST VS. LUTHER, edited by R. A. Short, copyright 1953 by the Bellarmine Publishing Company, Mound, Minn.)

- On Sin -

Christ: "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication . . . murder . . . and suchlike. And concerning these I warn you, they who do such things will not attain the Kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21).

Luther: "Sin boldly but believe more boldly. Let your faith be greater than your sin. . . Sin will not destroy us in the reign of the Lamb, although we were to commit fornication a thousand times in one day" (Letter to Melanchton, August 1, 1521, Audin p.178).

Christ: "And do not be drunk with wine, for in that is debauchery" (Eph. 5:18). "Keep thyself chaste" (I Tim. 5:22).

Luther: "Why do I sit soaked in wine? ... To be continent and chaste is not in me" (Luther's diary).

- On Good Works -

Christ: "What will it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but does not have works? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:14,26).

Luther: "He that says the Gospel requires works for salvation, I say, flat and plain, is a liar" ("able Talk, Weimer Edition, II, p.137).

- On Truth -

Christ: "Do not be liars against the truth. This is not the wisdom that descends from above. It is earthly, sensual, devilish" (James 3:1~15). "Do not lie to one another" (Col. 3:9). "The Lord hateth... a lying tongue... a deceitful witness that uttereth lies. . . "(Proverbs 6:1&17). "A thief is worse than a liar, but both of them shall inherit destruction" (Ecclus. 20:27).

Luther: "To lie in case of necessity, or for convenience, or in excuse, would not offend God, who is ready to take such lies on Himself" (Enserch Conference, July 17, 1540).

- On Marriage -

Christ: "Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if the wife shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery" ~ark 10:11-12).

Luther: "As to divorce, it is still a moot question whether it is allowable. For my part, I prefer bigamy" (DeWette, Vol.2, p.459).

- On Free Will -

Christ: "Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It were better for that man if he had not been born" (Matt. 26:24). "Let no man say when he is tempted, that he is tempted by God; for God is no tempter to evil" (James 1:13).

Luther: "Judas' will was the work of God; God by His almighty power moved his will as He does all that is in this world" (De Servo Arbitro - Against man's free will). Accosted on all sides by charges of heresy, even by many of his former associates in the Protestant movement, Luther found refuge in this, the strangest of all his beliefs. No man is accountable for his actions, Luther taught, no matter how evil. Not even Judas!

Such are the teachings of the first so-called "reformer" of Christ's Church! If Luther was a man divinely inspired or called in an extraordinary manner, why did God permit him to fall into so many absurdities in points of doctrine?

"Luther finally brought himself to indulge the pleasing delusion that the Catholic Church was the detestable kingdom of Antichrist . . . that he himself was John the Evangelist... "(From the book LUTHER, P.65).

So you see the heresies, divisions, confusion, etc. resulting from the private interpretation of the Scriptures. Unless there is a church in the world, from the days of our Lord, which declares unmistakably (infallibly) who Jesus is, and what He taught, He might just as well have revealed nothing!

Source: Open Letter to Non-Catholics

69 comments:

del_button July 9, 2006 at 11:10 PM
Truth said...

Why push your beliefs on others. Do you believe in God? I guess you can tell I am not catholic. God knew when he created us that they're would be different denominations. I believe, if you truly believe that you will die and go to Heaven, then it really doesn't matter your religion. That's my opinion.

del_button July 9, 2006 at 11:52 PM
Anonymous said...

mm. I agree. If we believe in the same God and read the same Word, we go to the same heaven.

del_button July 10, 2006 at 12:33 AM
Patriot1 said...

Oh, where to begin. [I don't usually respond to...this sort of theological mayhem but I can't pass up a blatant attack on Luther, he's not even here to defend himself] I might say that the place ought to begin with the small but pertinent red herring in the title of this particularly unschooled blog. But I'll give you .5 for an attempt at creativity. But I guess the place to begin ought to be this outlandish axiom by which you place this pious man in contradistiction to his Lord and Savior. "I answer that you must choose between Luther and Christ. Jesus said His Church would never teach error (John 14:26); Luther says it did teach error. If Luther is right, Christ is wrong; if Christ is right, Luther and all his followers are wrong." Did you even happen to READ this piece of text before you quoted? It says," But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."(John 14:26)KJV [I would have done the NIV but I figured you Catholic types love all those thees and thous]Rather than just rest my case right there, I take it you ain't that bright so let me help. Even an hermeneutic from uneducated laity ought to be able to see that Christ here speaks of the Holy Spirit being the educator. And since we agree on the trinity we agree that the Spirit is like/same/equal to the Father and the Son in Glory and Power. This makes the Spirit one with God. But you said, it was the Church that did the teaching. So either you're just flat wrong or you misbloged and meant to say the Spirit not the church does the educating, but wait, Luther's contention was never with the Spirit but always with the church. Particularly the 16th century catholic church not the historical Holy Catholic Church. Even more specifically his contention lay with particular religio-practices and political wars within the papacy (along with about 93 other thesis he posted at Wittenburg). For example: the practice of indulgences became a place of largesse and debauchery for the religous and political elite, the practice of simony or selling of church office for land grants and large sums of money or political favor. yadda yadda yadda on and on. But I digress, we were talking about John 14. Since it is the Spirit who is not only able but also mandated to educate and carry the reproof of Christ's teaching in our hearts it seems you have postulated a choice (between Luther and Christ) on a faulty basis even to begin with. So to sum up this intro point,a) Christ did NOT say that his church would never teach error, so any dispute about Luther and Christ here is moot. b)If we use the passage you site CORRECTLY, that the Spirit is responsible for the Christians education, then there is no contention between Christ and his servant Luther. Finally, c)There is no choice between Christ and Luther in fact that is just the sort of dichotomy Luther himself stood against at his trials. There is no choice between Christ and the law, only Christ. I won't even bother to address the rest of this page's blather, if you have anything to say or need some more education: kdefense.blogspot.

del_button July 10, 2006 at 2:24 AM
andy said...

Let me preface what I am about to write by saying that I am a protestant who is deeply in love with Christ and His teachings through scripture, tradition and history. Please, keep this in mind as I reply to the comment that attacks my friend, moneybags. Let me also say that Moneybags did not ask for this rebuttal nor is he even aware that I am writing this.

The Lord be with you, patriot1!

“But I guess the place to begin ought to be this outlandish axiom by which you place this pious man in contradistiction [sic] to his Lord and Savior.“
I think it interesting that you start out by using the very axiom that you claim Moneybags used – only to the extremely positive. Martin Luther’s piety seems not to be up for discussion here, but only his theological ideals. I find it strange that you build your argument on the fact that Martin Luther was a pious fellow. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, but do not chastise someone for doing the same that you do, but only in the negative.

“Did you even happen to READ this piece of text before you quoted? It says," But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."(John 14:26)KJV [I would have done the NIV but I figured you Catholic types love all those thees and thous]”
You like many of my Protestant brothers and sisters do not argue against Catholicism, but against what you think is Catholicism. Here, you show your ignorance by your statement about quoting from the King James. First, Catholics usually do not use the KJV, as the English reformers did it. Any simple student of Church History could have told you that. If I were to enter into an intelligent dialogue with a Roman Catholic, I would quote from the Dubay-Rheims or the New American translation of the Bible, not make a statement like you do above.

“Rather than just rest my case right there, I take it you ain't that bright so let me help.”
By whose definition of brightness are you judging? If you wanted someone to seriously listen to what you have to say, asinine statements like this ruin your whole argument. Please, learn your lesson!

“ Even an [sic] hermeneutic from uneducated laity ought to be able to see that Christ here speaks of the Holy Spirit being the educator. And since we agree on the trinity we agree that the Spirit is like/same/equal to the Father and the Son in Glory and Power. This makes the Spirit one with God. But you said, it was the Church that did the teaching.”
The Holy Spirit needs a mouthpiece in which to speak to this world, and the Church is it. Scripture, especially in the book of Acts, shows evidences to this concept. Let us consider Amos 3, “Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets. The lion has roared— who will not fear? The Sovereign LORD has spoken— who can but prophesy? (3:7-8 NIV)” How do we know what the Holy Spirit is saying to us is truly the Holy Spirit – by testing the spirit (1 John 4:1). We do this through scripture and making sure it is orthodox. Therefore, the Holy Spirit does the teaching though the Church.
You will probably want to quote 1 John 2:27 against me, where the author writes that the anointing of God within will teach you and that “you do not need anyone to teach you. (NIV)” However, you would be vastly taking this scripture out of context since it is concerning antichrists and those who come to take some out of the Christian faith. God’s anointing will tell you what is true, what is false, and who the antichrists are.

You also might be inclined to write that we have no need for intermediaries with God other than Christ. I do believe this to be true, because as Hebrews attests, we can enter into the magnificent throne room of God and hear straight from Him. However, should we not be like wise Esther who listened to those servants already in the house of the King? To ignore the fact that we stand on the shoulders of spiritual giants is a most egregious error. Therefore, we must compare what we believe to the Bible and to those who have gone before us (and who have way more wisdom than I will ever have).

"So either you're just flat wrong or you misbloged and meant to say the Spirit not the church does the educating, but wait, Luther's contention was never with the Spirit but always with the church. Particularly the 16th century catholic church not the historical Holy Catholic Church."
Most Catholics, of whom you do not have any clue, would actually agree with you on this fact. Especially on the fact that the Church of the earlu renaissance needed reformed, but I am wary of putting words in other’s mouths, so you will have to hear from them.

"Even more specifically his contention lay with particular religio-practices and political wars within the papacy (along with about 93 other thesis [sic] he posted at Wittenburg). For example: the practice of indulgences became a place of largesse and debauchery for the religous and political elite, the practice of simony or selling of church office for land grants and large sums of money or political favor. yadda yadda yadda on and on."
Finally, you throw in some historical facts – even though you misquote Luther quite a bit. Firstly, there were 95 theses that were nailed to the Chapel door at Wittenberg. All of the citations from the theses were about indulgences and indulgences only! The other concerns that you give were not even an issue to Luther until further in the Reformation with the peasantry rose up against the Church. For an informative and evenhanded treatment of Luther’s life, I recommended that you read Baiton’s, Here I Stand. It should fill in most gaps for you.

"a) Christ did NOT say that his church would never teach error, so any dispute about Luther and Christ here is moot."
Christ did say and even prayed that the Church should be one. In addition, He told us to be perfect. I think that would mean that the Church would be very careful of falling into error.

"b) If we use the passage you site CORRECTLY, that the Spirit is responsible for the Christians education, then there is no contention between Christ and his servant Luther."
There is that annoying positive axiom again. How did Martin Luther speak for the Holy Spirit? The truth of teaching is shown in two points: 1) Scripture and 2) Historic teachings and it must be judged as such.

"c) There is no choice between Christ and Luther in fact that is just the sort of dichotomy Luther himself stood against at his trials. "
I am surprised that someone who has studied rhetoric, as shown by your vocabulary, would make such a fool-hearty argument. Let me give you some Luther quotes that show you how Marin Luther stood against dichotomies,
"Either God must be unjust, or you, Jews, wicked and ungodly. You have been, about fifteen hundred years, a race rejected of God."
"The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes."
"Antichrist is the pope and the Turk [Muslim] together. A beast full of life must have a body and soul. The spirit or soul of Antichrist is the pope, his flesh or body the Turk."

I make no claims that Luther was pious or not, because it is his ideas that need to be argued, not his life. I believe, this is what Moneybags was trying to get across.

Let me finish by letting you know that I am a college student who attends Milligan College, one of the best colleges in the south. I am also a Lee. B Ledford Scholar in research of Church History this summer. I just thought I should introduce myself before you levy against me charges being badly informed.

Let me finish by praying the blessing of God over your and your family’s life. May you be truly and abundantly blessed from the hand of the Almighty, through the shed blood of Christ and by the Holy Spirit. Amen!

Have a wonderful day and the Lord be with you, patriot1!

del_button July 10, 2006 at 6:20 AM
St. Michael the Archangel said...

As for Patriot and Andy... I think you both need to lay the crack pipe down and think about what you both just said.....

Heres a fun fact for you, did you know that Martin Luther continued to go to confession and recieved the last rites before he died?

Now if this (reformer) as you might like to call him, believed his teaching so much, then why did he not practise what he preached?

Another fun fact, did you know that Luther also believed in Purgatory, the true presence of our lord in the Eucharist, and he had the original 7 books of the bible in his bible?

It was the other reformers that followed luther that took the 7 books out of the bible, that refuted purgatory, and said alot of other crazy things. But luther was also known for his psycho antics.

Luther was stark raving mad! If you read his biography you can see that the man was mentally unstable. He says in his book that the devil told him to do the things that he did, to sever the ties with the church, to attack people, also he says himself that he recieved his anti-catholic notions when he was on the toilet.

I am not making any of this up, so how about this, before you call moneybags a moron, why don't you do some research into when the bible was first written, by who it was written, and when the ignorant prots took the 7 books out and changed the words about salvation is only attempted by faith alone. Also you might want to get a new bible, as many of us educated theologians know, the NIV and KJV are full of errors... heck with it, any prot bible is full of errors, how can you say that you are reading the truth, when the book you are reading from is copied from the original book written by the Catholics... and your book is missing tons of info.

How about this... when you get off your high prot horse, come back here with some humility and then we can talk... until then.... I pray that God open your hearts and minds... and may St. Michael the Archangel protect the true church of christ and the souls within it form your misleading and inaccurate words....

J-M-J

del_button July 10, 2006 at 9:48 AM
Moneybags said...

St. Michael, I'm so glad to hear from you. I want to thank both you and Andy for writing to Patriot for me. It is clear to me that he has virtually no idea what he is talking about.

Andy, I just want to say that if all Protestants were like you, I would have no problem with their theology. You are very well informed and don't believe the blatant lies against Mary, Confession, the priesthood, the Mass, etc.

Truth, thank you for voicing your opinion. God knew that the Church would split into different denominations, but that doesn't mean He wanted it. Remember, He founded one Church on St. Peter, who became the first pope (Mt 18:18). The true Church must have four marks: It is One, Holy, Catholic (means "universal), and aposotolic. Only the Catholic Church believes in the complete truth because only it has all of those marks.

I post this and other things because I want people to know Christ, accept Him, and love Him.

To all readers:

"To know history is to cease to be a Protestant" (Henry Cardinal Newman)

del_button July 10, 2006 at 11:50 AM
St. Michael the Archangel said...

Hey Money...

Long time no see. I have been away from the blogging for awhile, I am tackling 50 credits towards my Bachelors in Religion.. yes you heard me right. I work at an online college and therefore I get free classes, I am taking the advanced 2 month classes and all together it is 50 credits in the next two months... I am stark raving mad and barely have time to work, let along eat or sleep...

:-)

I just had to check out your blog and I am glad that I did, I see that the Prots are coming up with new tactics and then I see that there is also some good ones that are truely seeking the truth of God. For those I applaud, for the rest.... may God help ya mate!

I will see ya around money.

Pax Christi,

Michael

del_button July 10, 2006 at 2:29 PM
Danny Garland Jr. said...

Truth,
God knew Judas was going to betray Jesus. Do you think he wanted that to happen to?

St. Michael,
I always love your responses!

del_button July 13, 2006 at 5:21 AM
Patriot1 said...

Well, leave it to a ('prot' is it?) to stir things up a bit. Let me first thank you all for such beautiful blessings, most especially from Andy, to even my house, I am honored. 2nd, I guess haste truely does make waste, and I spun out my response to the article rather quickly and made a few errors. I trust you'll forgive me, you have too. 3rd, let's have at. Rather than defend my arguments from thier (in a few cases) unraveling by andy, I will accept his admonishment in the
Spririt by which I feel it was given. I apologise for many of my tongue in cheek statements, I don't REALLY think Catholics prefer KJV (which as St. Micheal pointed out is actually a protestant breathed text) so in all seriousness there is really only a few points I want to readdress which I think are central. First, As andy said, "The Holy Spirit needs a mouth piece in this world and the Church is it" I completely agree. Yet not merely the mouthpiece but the body of Christ. God speaks His gospel to this world by not merely the preaching of His ministers but also the actions of the body as a whole. I consider the catholic church the closest of brothers in the faith, but as proverbs says "A friend loves at all times and a brother is born for adversity" (NES). Perhaps it is the nature of protestants and catholics to have at one another theologically, but I trust the power of the Holy Spirit to communicate the gospel more than I trust anyone's capacity for hermenutics or genius as an exigete. Second, I agree that,"To ignore the fact that we stand on the shoulders of spiritual giants is a most egregious error." For not only do we own an understanding of our identity as Chistians in this established authority (no small thing that) but having been equipped with the aged father's most beneficial wisdom we may better "make our calling and election sure". While much of the Protestant church in America has become 'selective' of the long years of historical church tradition, the Calvinists of the bunch tend to have a much more robust sense of unity with the historical than many. I give you in particular [Jamie Smith and John Milbank - Introducing Radical Orthodoxy: Mapping a post-secular theology]. Where much of the intent is a call to faithful protestant (reformed) theologians to redeem and reclaim the heritage they own by means of the aged fathers, Augustine, Origin and on and on. It is in the interest then for honest and faithful Christians to seek out those who have been closest to the father's vast treasure trove of wisdom, the catholic church. I also have some deep affection for the Orthodox as well but that is another conversation. Finally, and most difficult and I believe this is the point I want to exhume from Luther's passion and from the Apostle's (Paul) teaching. It is the act of grace given to us by means of the perfect work of Christ in life, in death and in intersession now with the Father that admits us through faith unto sonship and life eternal together with Christ. It was the dependancy upon works(the law) that gave Paul such a burden for the Jews. It was the outward posturing in obediance to the law that led Peter to shun the gentiles and cause Paul to place him aright by confrontation. And it was an addiction to the law that led the 16th century church into a demand for adherance to the authority of the church leaders even to the point of indulgences that carried faith away from grace and chained it to obligation. . . not to God but church authority. My brothers forgive my audacity, arrogance and blantant disrespect, let us speak to one another about the things of this world that matter most, as brothers should speak, with honesty and authenticity. Blessings in abundance most especially to you Andy, may your children be the Gospel to your eyes.

del_button July 15, 2006 at 12:51 PM
Anonymous said...

Patriot1 I agree 100%!

del_button July 15, 2006 at 12:54 PM
Anonymous said...

You like many of my Protestant brothers and sisters do not argue against Catholicism, but against what you think is Catholicism.

We are arguing with what Mr. Catholic Moneybags is proclaiming.

del_button July 15, 2006 at 2:02 PM
Moneybags said...

Anonymous,

And I proclaim what the Catholic Church really teaches. I proclaim the Truth of what we teach.

del_button July 15, 2006 at 6:53 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

umm
first of all no matter what denomination u are there is only one thing that can get u to heaven. He is Jesus. only through him can you see the father. not through good works or anything. you must admit that u are a sinner and that u need Jesus in ur life. sacraments or not if u believe in Jesus that he is the Messiah and that God rose him 3 days later then u will be recieved into the kindom.luther, catholicism, protestant, or w/e it doesnt matter. if u are a follower of Christ then you will go to heaven. nothing u are writing matters, all that matters is that Jesus is in ur heart. good deeds?...u are to do good deeds in return for the grace that u have recieved. i dont study catholicism or w/e but i know that they pray to mary and they ask forgiveness from the priest. this is horrible!
Mark 3:31-35 says
31Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."
33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked.
34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

so u see mary is not worthy of prayer.and neither is the priest great enough to forgive sins.
and for all other religions claiming they are all alike or they are the only way...is there no absolute truth anymore?? if i say the sky is blue am i wrong? if i say grass is green am i wrong? and if i say Jesus is the way the truth and the life am i wrong?...

dont worry about religion or what is right or what is not. only Jesus is right for religion is man's attempt to reach God while Christ is God's attempt to reach man.

del_button July 15, 2006 at 9:13 PM
Moneybags said...

dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm,

Sacraments are important. Didn't Jesus say that unless a man is born of water and spirit, he shall not enter Heaven (Jn 3:5)? Baptism is required - and Baptism is the first Sacrament anyone receives.

Mary is worthy of prayers. And, Confession is a power given to priests so that we confess Our sins to Jesus through them.

Please read these articles:

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2005/07/faith-alone.html

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/03/necessity-of-confession.html

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2005/10/are-saints-alive.html



You are right that Jesus is the only way. But, the Catholic Church is the only one centered 100% on Jesus's teachings.

del_button July 18, 2006 at 11:43 PM
Anonymous said...

And I proclaim what the Catholic Church really teaches. I proclaim the Truth of what we teach.

The church should not "teach". Jesus taught us, and we have the Bible for that. The church should merely spread the good Word and proclaim the coming of the Lord.

del_button July 19, 2006 at 5:14 AM
Moneybags said...

Jesus continues to teach. That is why we know contraception is wrong, abortion is wrong, etc. Jesus didn't ascend to Heaven to leave us. He continues to nourish us in the Eucharist and teach us through the Magesterium (the Church).

del_button July 19, 2006 at 5:15 AM
Moneybags said...

Remember, we are not saved by scripture-alone like Martin Luther taught. Tradition, the tradtion of Jesus, is really important:

Look to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 if you have doubts:

St. Paul writes: "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

I'll see you in a few days after I get back from vacation.

del_button July 19, 2006 at 5:58 PM
Anonymous said...

I'm truly happy that you try to continue to teach what Jesus taught. But first of all, saying that what you teach is EXACTLY what Jesus would teach is like saying your priest goes in the back room and plays with a ouiji board every night. We are all doing the best we can. And I do wish you would stop stating all that 'scripture-alone' and 'faith-alone' nonsense, because I don't think you comprehend its meaning fully. 'Scripture-alone' merely means that the Scripture being the Word of God is what we should turn to when making major decisions: the gospels, for example. Which is what I expect you Catholics do as well when confronted with a problem- I'm sure you don't just wait for God to drop the answer on your head. As for 'faith-alone', we DO believe in salvation by grace. But faith is the RESPONSE to grace. And FROM faith COMES good works. Everyone is blessed by God, but if you don't believe in him, how can you do all that other fancy stuff you Catholics require- sacraments and 'valid' this-and-that... and I am tired of you claiming that Protestants are stereotyping Catholics while you say that we believe we can live it up with the evil deeds! We do NOT think that just because we are saved we can go around commiting these things, because only if you repent are those sins forgiven, and if you do those things freely there is no intention to repent there.

And I'd like to remind you that Jesus upset a LOT of traditions.

del_button July 19, 2006 at 8:06 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

yes baptism is required as better stated in 1 Peter 3:20-22...but the protestant religion also says for u to be baptised. also Jesus breathed on only his 12 diciples to forgive sins and to heal so ppl would see that they are men of Jesus..u see the term Christian has been changed over the years. Jesus did not call his followers christians...ppl called his followers christians because they acted so much like Jesus himself they saw Jesus in the diciples. this is how we should be. has some random person u dont know ever come up to u and said "hey arent u that follower of Jesus?" most likely not and if so..then all the more to ya.
but about confession...why would u need a middle man to God other than Jesus? im mean in James 5:16 it says to confess ur sins to one another and pray for each other. the only thing u really need to confess is that Jesus is Lord and thats it. all im saying is that u can be in ur room or at the store or anywhere and all u have to do is confess to Jesus and he will seperate ur sins as far as the east is from the west. im not saying catholicism is wrong or luther is wrong or anything is wrong. all im saying is that u dont need all that other stuff. say if u were to go to on a mission trip where there were no churches and no one knew about Jesus. what if u could not reach a priest and could not do confession? would God condem u? of course not. and as for mary being worthy of worship...read exodus 20:3 alright? o yea the only thing that bothers me is... why do catholic ppl accept homosexuals? isnt that bishop gay or something i dont understand that clarify. adam and eve not adam and steve.

del_button July 20, 2006 at 3:57 PM
Moneybags said...

Hello. There seems to be some confusion. The Catholic Church is completely 100% against homosexuality. We never have had a homosexual bishop and never will. You are thinking of the Angelicans. Catholics love the sinner but hate the sin. People that are by nature homosexual must live chaste lives.

Also, in Confession we confess our sins to Jesus under the veil of a priest. We confess them directly to God as the priest has the power by God to forgive sins.

Please see this site for more information. I can't write a lot now because I'm staying at a monastery today:

http://www.freewebs.com/acatholiclife/index.htm

del_button July 22, 2006 at 8:40 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

moneybags sorry i was thinking about the angelican chuch...thanks for clearing that up for me. but there is something else i dont understand from what u said...u said that ppl that are homosexual by nature must live chaste lives right? well ppl arent born homosexual or w/e it is a choice.

anyways what makes a priest? could it be some man on the street saying God gave him the power to forgive sins? do they graduate from some catholic college and after they graduate they attain this power? help me on this. why must u need some...person...to forgive ur sins? u said that u confess ur sins under the veil of a priest directly to God correct? then why does the priest need to forgive ur sins and God cannot? i dont understand. i mean its good to confess ur sins to one another but not to forgive one another like u are God or something. u are supposed to pray for one another as it says in the bible. but anyway we are living in the end of times so as long as u really know Jesus is ur king and savior for real then its alright.

del_button July 22, 2006 at 10:09 PM
Moneybags said...

You: well ppl arent born homosexual or w/e it is a choice

Me: Many scientists claim there is an imbalance in the brain that causes homosexual thoughts and desires. But, above all, homosexual actions, whether genetic or not, are still sinful. This is what the Church teaches.

You: anyways what makes a priest?

Diocesan Priests go to the seminary (college) for at least 8 years. These priests work for their diocese and are the most common type of priest. These are the kind that run parishes that people attend. These people get bachelor degress in Philosophy and Masters in Theology. Some study longer for a Roman decree in the Vatican. Plus, some priests get other degrees like degress in Psychology to further help people.

You: then why does the priest need to forgive ur sins and God cannot?

Me: I realize that Confession is really confusing to non-Catholics, so I want to make it simple for you to understand. Jesus Christ in John 20:21-23 gave his apostles the power to forgive sins. They forgave sins (it was Jesus forgiving sins through them). The apostles passed this power down through ordination. Through the laying on (imposition) of hands and prayers at ordination, a man is made a priest after his education and can forgive sins. But, remember, it is really Jesus Christ that forgives the sins through Him.

Please see this link for more information: Confession

You: but anyway we are living in the end of times so as long as u really know Jesus is ur king and savior for real then its alright.

Me: That statement sounds a lot like we are saved by faith alone. Like the only thing I have to do is say "I accept Jesus" and then we are saved. That isn't the end of it, though. We need to try to live Christian lives. We do this by receiving the sacraments, fasting, praying, etc.

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2005/07/faith-alone.html

God's peace be with you!

del_button July 22, 2006 at 11:57 PM
Anonymous said...

If you have faith, you should be doing those things anyway. Otherwise you wouldn't have a true faith. You can't say "I accept Jesus" and then neglect to live by his rules, so good works are essentially the fruit of true faith.

del_button July 23, 2006 at 7:20 AM
Moneybags said...

so good works are essentially the fruit of true faith.

That is exactly why the Protestant view of salvation by "Faith-alone" is incorrect. Good works go along with our faith. We should have both. That's what the Catholic Church says.

del_button August 13, 2006 at 2:31 AM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

ok first of all when a person goes to a catholic college to become a priest they automatically recieve the gift of forgiving sins in God's place??? ok tell me..when apostles became known later as priests.. was it just the term "apostle" that changed or did the original ones have a long line of children that gained that blessing?? are modern day priests far away sons of the first apostles?..hmm im not so sure. and also..Jesus Christ does not need anyone to forgive for him. he said that he is the way the truth and the life and no one can go to the father but through him.
ok and..u are saved by faith alone
in Ephesians 2:8-9 says

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

u see.. faith saves you because with faith God gives u grace and in turn u do good works because he has given u this gift of grace.

del_button August 13, 2006 at 11:05 AM
Moneybags said...

dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm,

first of all when a person goes to a catholic college to become a priest they automatically recieve the gift of forgiving sins in God's place???

After they complete college and all of their studies, the man will be ordained in an ordination ceremony. Then He is given the power of the Holy Spirit to forgive sins, celebrate the Eucharist, etc.

Jesus Christ does not need anyone to forgive for him

Jesus Christ of course needs no one. Just like in the Miracle of the Loaves, He didn't need the disciples help, but He asked for them. He doesn't need anyone's help.

However, He chose to give priests the power to forgive sins (John 20:21-23). So, when we receive absolution from a priest, it is Jesus Christ forgiving us merely through a priest. Why did He chose to do it this way? I don't know, but He chose to do it this way. Confession is essential to forgiveness.

http://www.freewebs.com/acatholiclife/necessityofconfession.htm

We are not saved by faith-alone:

James 2:24: “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (NAB).

“Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father,” (Matt 5:16 NAB)

"Produce good works as evidence of your repentance" (Matthew 4:8 NAB). And look to Jesus's own words: "Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father" (Matthew 5:16)

"By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness" (Rom 2:5-8 NAB)

del_button August 13, 2006 at 11:39 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

ok money...it says u need to do good things but not that good deeds save u. u see in all of the verses u have there none say that good works and faith save u. it says:

Romans 10:9
9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

i know what ur trying to say. that faith and good works go hand in hand and i agree. but good works is the effect and faith is the cause. u do good works because with ur faith u recieve grace.

"By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness" (Rom 2:5-8 NAB)

if u didnt notice...this day is coming very soon in our lifetimes i believe...let God decide.

del_button September 10, 2006 at 4:21 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

This is what i see know. I hope you guys can relate and realize the truth.

God cares about "the Church," which consists of all true believers-no matter what denomination they belong to. God sent His Son to establish the true Church. You can belong to that church simply by accepting the free gift of salvation that Jesus offers to each and every person. Jesus did not come to earth, draw men unto to himself and then say, "Okay, you Methodists go over there, and you Lutherans go over there..." In fact, His purpose was to unify all people. Galatians 3:28 says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

The denominational tug-of-war began when men got too involved in the minor issues and forgot to focus on the majors. Churches began to be built upon their unique spin on doctrines or traditions, instead of on the simple saving grace of Jesus Christ. Denominational differences have caused innumerable conflicts and divisions among believers. That is not God's will for the Church. God calls us to be united in serving Him. "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace" (Eph. 4:3). He is not interested in which denomination you belong to; He desires that you love Him and serve Him with your whole heart and that you choose a church that teaches the Word of God.

del_button September 10, 2006 at 4:44 PM
Moneybags said...

He desires that you love Him and serve Him with your whole heart and that you choose a church that teaches the Word of God.

And the honest truth is that the only denomination that teaches that is the first denomination every made. The denomination that was established by Christ Himself - the Catholic Church.

del_button September 12, 2006 at 6:47 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

im not going to sit here and argue with u anymore money. i know what the truth is and u (as intellectual about christ as u are) should know too. "The Church" Jesus came to set up was not called catholicism, it wasnt called anything. the literal translation is A place for public (especially Christian) worship. but it is also a fellowship of God's people. God wants you to know his ways and He wants you to study His word. but if one already does, and has already accepted Christ, how can you argue against that? why do force your religion on others? catholicism isnt the right way, nor is protestants or anything. these are just names given by human minds.God's way is the only true way and reading His word, which is truth, is the only way to know. we have been contradicting each other with verses from the same book. i realize that everything in the bible is truth. you cant pick and choose what you want. you are emphasizing that your church is the only way and its not. stop letting the secular world obscure your judgement. you have a bible, find the truth.

this is on divisions in the Church.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?

i wont argue with you anymore. if you want something answered i will answer it. but look, its in black and white. dont ignore it. God's way is the only way.

del_button September 12, 2006 at 6:58 PM
Moneybags said...

And God's way is Roman Catholicism in its perfect, true form.

You ask "why do force your religion on others?"

Because of the Command at the end of the Gospel of Matthew. I am to proclaim the truth to all creation until everyone believes it.

del_button September 13, 2006 at 5:45 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

moneybags, stop emphasizing that the "Roman Catholic Church" is the only way. look what u are doing; you're saying that your church is the way? its not get it through your head. church doesnt save you Jesus does. and he didnt say that roman catholicism is the way the truth and the life. Roman Catholicism is almost like Christianized Paganism, man-made traditions, mariolatry, purgatory, confession, saint-worship, prayers for the dead, priestly absolution, and spurious sacraments, this is not what Jesus intended. The atonement? The eucharist? moneybags...are you crazy? do not use your finite mind to even think that the church will save you.
Romans 6:10 says that Christ died once and only once to sin. it was finished when he said 3 days before he was raised. it doesnt matter that the catholic church has been around for centuries its not the truth. im not saying that the protestant church is the truth either...what i am saying is that THE BIBLE is the truth. no church can teach what one can learn by reading it. the church can only teach to read it and to fellowship for praise. The Catholic Church has a long history of immense wickedness, from extremely corrupt popes and priests to a whole system of superstition, intimidation and deception. it holds those who are devotees in bondage and it is an institution of tremendous wealth and extraordinary materialism. all the pomp and circumstance surrounding the rituals of this church are really empty, man-made traditions that are spiritually bankrupt and have little or no basis in the Living Word of God. the apostle John in 2 John 9-11 said, "Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed. For he that bids him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." don't you dare say that your church is the way to heaven. you seem to be an educated individual and you can't possibly believe in this mumbo jumbo. i don't even understand that you would even consider that this is the truth. this is another showing of what this world is coming to. if you havent noticed the signs everywhere...well you better acknowledge them know, rapture is about to happen and we are debating about what denomination is the right one? its not a matter of what church is right, its a matter of what is real. what is truth. Jesus is truth and believing in his word and in Him is the only thing that can save you.

you say, I am to proclaim the truth to all creation until everyone believes it.

you are highly mistaken. matthew says that you are to proclaim the truth to all creation, yes, but it doesnt say "until everyone believes it." not many people will accept Christ anyway before the rapture. if your "church" doesnt teach this then i guess that it isnt the real church of God. i just don't get it. stop being stubborn and accept the truth. it is so blatant and flat out that you would have to be a fool to not know. this is not the way and you know it. anyone who reads this know that Jesus is the only one that can save nothing else. no church or group can say anything different. keep an open mind and listen to your heart. God can tell you the truth more than i can and ill be praying for you.

del_button September 13, 2006 at 8:01 PM
Moneybags said...

Roman Catholicism is almost like Christianized Paganism, man-made traditions, mariolatry, purgatory, confession, saint-worship, prayers for the dead, priestly absolution, and spurious sacraments, this is not what Jesus intended.

Roman Catholicism teaches those things because JESUS and HIS DISCIPLES taught them!! The Church taught them - the Church constiting of the apostles.

The atonement? The eucharist? moneybags...are you crazy? do not use your finite mind to even think that the church will save you.

Like the many saints accused of being crazy, I am not. I believe in the teachings of John Chapter 6 - Jesus is in the Eucharistic Bread. The Communion wafer IS JESUS. And if one denies this, he shall not have life in him and therefore shall not have true life. Believe!, or you shall too fall from the truth that Jesus taught. How much it tears Our Lord apart to come down from Heaven sacramentally in the Eucharist and be rejected. All that reject Him in the Eucharist, reject him like the Jews rejected Him.

"Taste and see"! The EUCHARIST IS JESUS! This is essential. You must believe this because Jesus said this. This is for our salvation.

i just don't get it. stop being stubborn and accept the truth. it is so blatant and flat out that you would have to be a fool to not know. this is not the way and you know it. anyone who reads this know that Jesus is the only one that can save nothing else. no church or group can say anything different. keep an open mind and listen to your heart. God can tell you the truth more than i can and ill be praying for you.

You won't understand if you don't practice humility and put all of your faith in Christ. You must know history - that the Catholic Church was the first Church. You must follow the true teachings of Jesus and not be led astray by protestant (heretical) views. Jesus saves but through the Sacraments of the Church, which He instituted and commissioned His apostles to continue.

I am not stubborn. I am doing like Jesus did - I will keep the truth until death. At Judgment Day all peoples shall know that the Catholic Church was truly right.

I will never stop proclaiming the truth.

As St. Joan of Arc said before her execution, "About Jesus Christ and the [Catholic] Church, I simply know that they are one and the same and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

del_button September 14, 2006 at 6:40 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

moneybags, you are terribly mistaken. mariolatry, purgatory, confession, saint-worship, prayers for the dead, priestly absolution, and sacraments are not talked about in the bible. yes it does say of baptism but it also says "thou shalt not have any other gods before me." this is the first commandment and completely invalidates the man-made traditions of mariolatry, saint-worship, and priestly absolution. the eucharist is celebrated as a sacrifice that is performed over and over when Christ's true intentions were to remember His sacrifice that is the only and complete atonement. in John 6:35 Jesus says "I am the bread of life," but does this mean He is a literal loaf of bread from heaven? i dont think so. He is no more bread than than He is a vine. this is confused by the transubstantiation doctrine and states that other works are needed for complete atonement. how untrue. 1 Corinthians 15:17 clearly states 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. furthermore Romans 6:10 says 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Therefore, a man-made ritual like the eucharist that emphasizes the sacrifice over and over through the doctrine of transubstantiation violates and adulterates the atonement of Christ, which was declared as "finished" when Jesus breathed his last breath, three days before He was resurrected. Jesus does not save through anything, He said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6. stop giving in to false ideas. you are not proclaiming anything except the lie that it is the catholic church that saves you. it does not matter that the catholic church was the first church. all that means is that it was for the longest time corrupt.

del_button September 14, 2006 at 9:45 PM
Moneybags said...

To hate the Eucharist is to literally hate Jesus Christ. I'm through with this conversation. You deny Jesus Christ! That is what you are doing! You fail to realize that Jesus gave his apostles (the bishops) the power to absolve sins in the Bible. You never apparently realized that indulgences and prayer to saints make sense and are alluded to in the Bible. What about "some shall be saved but through fire"? That is talking about purgatory.

For those that want to learn, I beg you to read this website and have an open mind.

http://www.freewebs.com/acatholiclife/index.htm

I will not talk with someone that denies what Jesus taught in Chapter 6 of the Gospel of John - that the Eucharist IS HIS BODY AND BLOOD.

del_button September 15, 2006 at 7:22 PM
dnjt_dlTdm_fjqm said...

do you even understand what you are saying?! me deny Jesus? and you are the one that believes that he is a literal loaf of bread? so that must also mean that He is literal when he says in
John 15:1
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener." is he literal here too? is he a literal fruit vine...is there something in roman catholicism that worships vines as well?? i hope not! look you roman catholics just pick and choose what is literal and what is not. it was Jesus's death on the cross and his resurrection that truly atones us. are you saying that his death wasnt enough? that you need extra works to go to heaven? how can you tell me that i deny Jesus when you are the one that worships Mary and other saints?!! you catholics belittle Jesus and don't truly believe in His power. you have substitutes for everything that Jesus established on earth. and don't tell me that isnt denial!
In John 6:35 it does say that Jesus told his diciples
"I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty." he clearly states that whoever comes to Him and whoever believes in Him will never hunger or thirst. This is even more vindicated in John 4:10-13 where Jesus says to a samaritan woman
10"If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." 11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?" 13Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

and in John 4:34-38
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35Do you not say, 'Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37Thus the saying 'One sows and another reaps' is true. 38I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor."

in this verse He talks about His food being the will of God and to finish His work. are we not supposed to do as Jesus did? when He said His body was the bread of life and He was the living water, he was speaking in a parable which, in fact, really meant that whoever came to Him and believed in Him would not die(have everlasting life). in the bible does it say anywhere that Jesus's diciples literally ate His flesh? did they really drink His blood? no they didn't. but does that mean that they are in hell right now? of course not. stop picking and choosing. and another thing, catholics have no assurance of salvation do they? that is why purgatory was made, a man-made ritual as a place to send catholics to after death with which the catholic church has profited tremendously. why are you putting the eucharist in place of Jesus??? is His death not enough?

Exodus 20:3
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

is this what you were talking about when you said "indulgences and prayer to saints make sense and are alluded to in the Bible..."
are you not contradicting yourself? you don't have any other gods before the true God but praying to saints and to mary is ok? where is the truth in that?

why is mary treated as co-redemptrix when she needed saving herself? we were told by the apostle John in 2 John 1:9-11
9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

the roman catholic church does not abide by God's doctrine, therefore
anyone who welcomes it shares in its wicked work. don't be hypocritical and deny Jesus as you wrongly accused me. i know Jesus and i know He is in my life.

del_button September 15, 2006 at 9:02 PM
Moneybags said...

When Jesus said He was the vine, He didn't say that we are to eat or do anything with his vine. When He said that He is the door, He didn't ask us to physically do anything with a door. He didn't institute anything with a vine at the Last Supper. He didn't create a door. Instead, He humbly broke bread, raised it to Heaven, and said, "This is my Body."

If you deny the Eucharist, you do deny Jesus Christ. That's the facts!

http://www.freewebs.com/acatholiclife/theeucharist.htm

I encourage you watch this video:

http://dsanford.com/miraclehost.html

del_button September 4, 2007 at 9:03 PM
Anonymous said...

Very interesting comments...
I read through your blog and many of the comments left by pro-catholics and pro-protestants, who have interesting perspectives on faith and salvation. I've heard these arguments before, there is nothing new here!

You are misinformed if you believe Martin Luther solely started the Protestant revolution. He merely got the attention of the church because he was on the inside. There were many cracks forming in the foundation of the early church (metaphorically speaking). The main issue posed by Martin Luther, as I understand, was the payment for indulgences, and the misrepresentation of church authority. Church leaders were similar to governors of state and town magistrates, making civil as well as theological rules. There were many who felt the way Luther did, both inside the church and outside. The notion that Luther was a way-ward person is simply not true.

Perhaps the most important event that helped kick-start the Reformation, in my opinion, was the invention of the printing press and the mass-production of Bibles for the people.

I would be very careful about pushing the Catholic Church as the one true church of Jesus Christ because I'm not so sure Christ would agree with you considering that many church leaders have delibrately protected and harbored criminal pedophile priests, paid billions (using church assets) in damages to thousands of victims. A Bishop in the Netherlands want all Catholics to call God, Allah and finds nothing wrong with using the terms interchangably. Another Bishop said it's alright to steal if you are hungry. And the Pope recently said that Muslims and Catholics have a lot in common. I am a Catholic and I dumbfounded by what my church is doing and saying.

I'm curious what others have to say, so I'll sign off.

Dan

del_button November 2, 2007 at 2:17 PM
Anonymous said...

You Protestants just don't get it do you. Check out www.ProtestantErrors.com to see just how ridiculous you beliefs are. God Bless and I will pray a rosary for all of you,
A Catholic

del_button November 17, 2007 at 4:38 PM
ronnie said...

You've completely misunderstood Protestants, you know. Luther didn't believe the Church was wrong all along, he believed that mistakes had been made and the Church was losing its faith. It was limited to about 3 yrs. And he was right; the Catholic Church supported indulgences, saint worship, and simony. Something was wrong with the faith. Now the Catholic Church is almost right again. I am a Pastor's daughter and proud of my faith. Don't try to push yours on others.

del_button November 23, 2007 at 4:03 PM
Seminarian Matthew said...

Ronnie,

Even though Martin Luther may have started out with good intentions to stop corruption, he became a heretic.

Luther's chief errors are contained in the following propositions: (1) There is no supreme teaching power in the Church. (2) The temporal sovereign has supreme power in matters ecclesiastical. (3) There are no priests. (4) All that is to be believed is in the Bible. (5) Each one may interpret Holy Scripture as he likes. (6) Faith alone saves, good works are superfluous. (7) Man lost his free will by original sin. (8) There are no saints, no Christian sacrifice, no sacrament of confession, and no purgatory.

Why do I try to evangelize and express the beliefs of the Catholic Church? Because "outside of the Church there is no salvation". I am doing it for the supreme law: the salvation of human souls, purchased by Jesus Christ on the Cross.

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/08/can-non-catholics-be-saved.html

del_button November 24, 2007 at 8:21 AM
Seminarian Matthew said...

To those who question the Virgin Mary's role using "Here are my mother and my brothers; anyone who does the will of my Father who sent me is my brother and sister and my mother", see this discourse by St. Augustine:

http://sognodargento.blogspot.com/2007/11/by-faith-she-believed-by-faith.html

del_button March 22, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Hilary said...

I've been reading through all of these blogs, and I can hardly get through it. Let me firstly say that I believe that arguing back and forth over an internet blog accomplishes absolutely nothing! If you want to find out something about someone else's faith, go and find an authority on it and TALK with them face to face. Find a minister, or find a priest and meet with him FACE to FACE.
I also have to give an apology for my fellow Catholics who seem to get unduly frusterated and uncharitable toward our fellow protestants, calling them "ignorant prots" and suchlike. I have to apologige for this...telling people who believe in Christ our Lord that they have rejected Him and then saying condiscendingly "I will pray a rosary for you" acomplishes nothing. What a condescending stab. Pick up a book and read it...talk to people. Read things from the early church. A brief look at many of the church fathers, the one connection we have to Christ in the early church, demonstrates clearly that the church in the first centuries looked very much like what the catholic church does today...one, sacramental, hierarchical, ecclesiastical. References to priests, bishops, and the Eurcharist are made numerous times. We all need to study history honestly and well, and we may all be able to understand one another a bit more without jumping to harsh conclustions. I love the Catholic Church so dearly, not as the sole means of our salvation, but as a dear and precious gift that Christ bestowed to fallible man. We are so unworthy of it!
A very happy Easter to you all.

del_button June 7, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Anonymous said...

Christ: "What will it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but does not have works? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:14,26).

Luther: "He that says the Gospel requires works for salvation, I say, flat and plain, is a liar" ("able Talk, Weimer Edition, II, p.137).

Ok Luther was right you do not need works to gain salvation. What was written in James is simply saying that if somone claims to be a Christian but does not have good works then they probaly do not truly have faith in Christ. As a Christain we do good works because we WANT to not because we HAVE to in order to be saved. Observe what is stated in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and this not from yourselves, it is a gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." -NIV

You see? This verse contradicts your whole arguement. Luther was right.

del_button August 4, 2010 at 12:16 PM
Anonymous said...

It is the responsibiltiy of all who profess to be Christian to seek the truth no matter what the consequences may be,many do not like the truth because it can hurt,regardless of this to be a Christ-follower leaves no room for lies or one`s own interpretation of the truth.
Having read many books on Luther I have found that many authors indulge in half-truths and have intentionally glossed over the facts in order to almost sanctify the man.
It is no secret that Luther had a habit of name calling and foul language,you only have to read his `Table Talk`letters to find this out.
His crude remarks against Moses and the law,of the Jews in general is shocking but Luther saved his most foul diatribes for the Pope and the Catholic church.
Luther was sick with scruples and could not rid himself of this state no matter what he tried it brought no relief,not prayer,not sacrifice nor good works, and so these aids to the spiritual life of the Christian had to go.
If as we believe that the written scriptures are Gods word then how can anyone defend Luther`s treatment of the great apostle James? calling his epistle one of straw! the full list of Luthers transgressions would fill a large volume and still there are those who would defend him regardless of the factual truth!
Luther was indeed heretical in his teachings regarding sin and morals and we are to believe that God chose such a wretch to bring the true light to people according to Luthers own words the mind boggles!
You who profess to love Jesus Christ have an obligation to find out the truth and if not! then you are in serious error and dicing with your eternal life, and when the day comes for each persons private judgement before the `Just Judge` there will be no room for excuses for all things, will be laid bare.
It is long past time for all Protestants to come home to the Mother church, the same church which is the only one institued by Jesus Christ and as scripture tells us....``But if I tarry long, that thou may know how thou ought to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth``.(1.Timothy3:15)

del_button August 17, 2010 at 9:14 PM
todd said...

I couldnt agree more with this article. I am a very devout Catholic and I read both sides and arguments about the reformation and the side arguing against the catholic church has nothing but speculation and what their "Ministers" have told them. The face that Catholicism was around for so long before Mr. Martin Luther came along should just make it obvious to all non believers which side is right. I loved the quote above...."To know history is to cease to be a Protestant" (Henry Cardinal Newman)
Amen to that. And thanks for a great explanation!

del_button September 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM
Anonymous said...

It was not wrong that Luter wanted to change some things in church. However, Luther refused many books both from New Testament and Old Testament. He did it just because it was suitable for his doctrines and theories. This is what makes him the most heretic in the history of christianity.

del_button May 8, 2011 at 2:25 PM
Sonlight City said...

The passage that you used to support your point "the Church would never teach errors"(John 14:26) is invalid considering that the verse stated has nothing to do with what you were talking about. It simply states that the Holy Spirit acts as a teacher for us (those who are willing to listen) to remind us of what God had said. If you remember, Luther was originally a part of the Catholic Church and made his mission to reform the Roman Catholic Church and not to create a whole new denomination. Using your logic (the Church will never teach error), since Luther was a part of the Church, Luther could not have been teaching error. And where in Jesus' teachings or in scripture does it say that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true denomination? In fact, where does it say anything about the Catholic Church? That brings me to another point - the errors in the Catholic Church. Neither Jesus' teachings or his apostles teachings that were written in the Scriptures have ANYTHING to do with us being justified in selling indulgences, praying to the saints, that good works get us into heaven, that the Pope is the head of the Church and has the right to send people to heaven or hell (a right that is explicitly reserved for God). This is just to name a few. The passage about faith without works is dead is not saying that we will go to hell if we don't do a certain amount of good works! It is saying that if we TRULY have faith in Jesus Christ we will do good works and without them our faith does not earn us any reward in heaven. With regard to the selling of indulgences, if you can name one place in the scriptures where it states it is okay for man to take the privilege to BUY someone out of punishment than I will take back everything I have said. I am positive, however, that you can not do this because no such passage exists. Jesus Christ was the perfect and total remission for our sins (taking our eternal punishment away) as the perfect and holy sacrifice, and no man can do the same or it renders Christs sacrifice as dead. In conclusion, the Catholic church has many beliefs and practices that it cannot back up with scriptures and it condemns those who do not believe as they do. I do not say that the Catholic church is wrong on the whole, or that it's belief will condemn it's members to hell. On the contrary - Any who believe will be save. I do say, however, from one fellow believer to another, that it is seriously misguided in many area's and needs to evaluate it's position and make sure that it can back it up with scripture.

del_button May 31, 2012 at 3:51 AM
Anonymous said...

Even though I am a Roman Catholic I still believe that we should all just follow the bible but that Baptism is very important. Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, and everyone else, should not be adverse to others' religions in James 4:11-12 it reads: "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?" If you really want to spread the word of God then don't contradict others who believe in Him as well. It's called respect and Moneybags you can't attack others with immature insults like "You deny Jesus Christ!" Seriously it makes you sound like those crazy people that can't say Satin because you think you'll get struck down or something. And I want to say to everyone else whatever "religion" you are part of, I respect you if you follow Him and have faith. Let God be The Judge.

del_button August 12, 2012 at 5:00 PM
Digital image procesing said...

I want to thank to God for this time to know the world what is true about the Holy Church.

Firstly I want to clarify to all my protestant brothers that martin luther born on 10 November 1483 and he expired on 18 February 1546.

He was excommunicated by Pope Leo X on 3 January 1521.

Martin Luther married Katharina von Bora, On 13 June 1525.

according to following link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

And Catholic Church was announced by Pope Paul VI at the First Vatican Council in 1870.


For reference see the article
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm

That means as all the protestants protest, martin luther didn't came against the Roman Catholic Church. "He came outside against THE CHURCH", because he cannot divide the catholic church before it was born!!!(1870).


Secondly the meaning of Catholic means "Universal". It is the universal church. It is the Church from where faith transmits through the sacrifices of many Saints and Martyrs. I wonder that protestants does not believe in the interceptions of the Saints and Martyrs!!??!!

If you don't believe in their interceptions, why you are asking your pastors to pray for your's? and why you are bending your heads before your elders? and why you are going to the churches and prayers for healing?

Does you think that pastors are Gods? (I'm sorry if you hurt with my words.)

Finally, I want to know about the Virgin Mary.

Answer me this. Do you accept your new born child to be kept in a garbage or in stinky river? No, we cannot because we love our child.

Now, tell me that your love is bigger than the love of our MIGHTY GOD?

Will HE accept HIS only SON to be born to a sinner like us?

For that reason HE Chosen Mother Mary, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you (Jer 1: 5)"

And HE send HIS Angel to Mother Mary, and spoke with her that "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." [Luke 1: 28]

If you said that Mother Mary not the Chosen one. Then you are saying that WORD OF GOD is false. This is what told by martin luther.

My dear brother I'm requesting you to know what is true. It is not your fault to speak like this because your elders leaded you in this way. But you have wisdom, you have knowledge why cant you know every thing of your own?

I need all the Christians around the world should be united again as before martin luther. Keep in mind "Unite we Stand Divide we Fall". Let us unite and fought against the Satan. There are many things around us which harms the Christianity. Brothers Let us unite as one body in CHRIST.

May Lord Bless us with peace and wisdom and clean us with the holy blood which HE shed on cross and bring us to the everlasting life.

I Pray this in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

del_button October 7, 2012 at 11:55 PM
Anonymous said...

All that is needed for salvation is faith , faith will lead to good works but is not required for salvation.

del_button November 8, 2012 at 7:53 AM
Goose said...

My relationship with my creator is my business,I don't need anyone to interpret scripture for me,catholic or protestant.All men are created equal and no man represents God before me.If you are a true believer,you will do good works because you are a child of God,some silly ritual or lack thereof will not get you into heaven or keep you out of it.That is the understanding God gives me and I dare someone to show me otherwise.

del_button January 13, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Anonymous said...

Mary is worthy of prayers? Where in the bible is that written. Also if some of you defend so much the teachings of the Catholic Church, why dont you defend the bible instead. No graven imgages, now a days the church is making a bussiness selling statues and pendants and chanins with crosses. Also if you defend Luther so much you should read the part where he went nuts stating that all Jews should be disposed of their belongings. The bible states that you should know a true prophet by his fruits, ill give it to you, Luther did put the Catholic church in shame with all those rituals they had and still have, but persuing the Jews was not a goldy person would ought to do.

del_button January 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM
Anonymous said...

Excuse my writting as I dont have time to make it all nice and pretty, I know you will understand it.

del_button January 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM
Matthew said...

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2008/01/usage-of-graven-images.html

del_button March 14, 2013 at 10:04 AM
Anonymous said...

Poor thief on the cross didn't get to go to heaven because he wasn't baptized! oh wait, Jesus said "today I will see you in paradise" so I guess water baptism isn't the issue. it is the Baptism of Salvation through the acceptance of Jesus Christ. There are actually seven different baptisms in the Bible. Maybe we should be studying our Bible instead of history or traditions.

del_button March 14, 2013 at 10:19 AM
Matthew said...

Church tradition has always taught baptism of water, blood, or desire. The thief was baptized in desire.

del_button June 13, 2013 at 10:10 PM
Blain perkins said...

While I do NOT under ANY circumstances support the heretical protestant teachings, it must be understood that the church had become corrupt. Reform was needed but not the way Luther wanted it. Had he protested a return to the ways things had been around 500 years earlier, there is a good chance he would now be a revered saint.

del_button June 14, 2013 at 12:32 AM
A Christian said...

I appreciate your sincere concern and plea to Protestants at the beginning of your article. I do a lot of research, and this touched me because of it's uniqueness and genuineness.

I agree that many Protestants regard Luther as a sort of Protestant-saint, but the more I read about the man, the more I want to distance myself from mainline denominations.

I think of 1 Corinthians 1:12-14, "What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. "

Anyway, thanks for the information and your humility.

Sincerely,

A Christian
www.myfathershouse.squarespace.com

P.S. I'm not Catholic, but how is it possible to blaspheme "the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Saints, or any holy men and women of the Church of God." ?

del_button June 14, 2013 at 6:16 AM
Matthew said...

Blasphemy refers to saying anything irreverent or unholy about the saints, angels, or God.

del_button October 31, 2013 at 12:07 PM
Matthew said...

Luther’s nail was nothing more than a nail driven into the side of our Savior. It was a nail of pain and discord. Luther was an agent of satan.

del_button January 23, 2014 at 1:22 PM
Anonymous said...

Martin Luther was not a man who tried to imitate Christ. His "Reformation" was a self-serving power grab, and once he gained that power, his whole story flip-flopped, and he became a despot who would gladlly kill anyone who disagreed with him.

We are all sinners, but simply acknowledging that fact doesn't mean you get a Carte Blanche to be a drunken, debased, hateful bigamist and to expect to enter the Kingdom.

Based on the evil life Martin Luther lived, I fully understand why he would want to make 'faith, not works' the centerpiece of his self-authored 'religion'.

How can anyone doubt that Martin Luther was the spiritual father of the Holocaust?

But, I forget, he get's a pass, because he claimed 'faith'.

I will give Martin Luther credit for one thing though- I took my Catholic faith for granted until I began to learn about Luther. And honestly, I was very naive about Luther, until with the dawn of the internet, I discovered how deeply that Protestants hate Catholics.

Go forth as sin no more.

del_button April 25, 2014 at 9:26 AM
Anonymous said...

Lutheranism is evil construct perpetrated by the father of lies.

del_button October 12, 2015 at 8:44 AM
Jay Lynn White said...

The Holy Spirit guides so I will comment. Martin Luther translated the Holy Bible into German from Hebrew. In this process he removed seven books, deleted verses he did not like in the books of Esther and Daniel plus he added the word 'alone' in Romans. He wanted his own way and that was to say you are justified by faith alone and good work has nothing to do with it. A straying involving millions of Christ's sheep came from this ONE MAN.

Let us look at this one man protestants celebrate and thank. Martin, 6 letters, Luther, 6 letters, and how many books are in the Martin (6) Luther (6) Bibles (6)? He did not pick 65 or 67 but 66 so he could sign the book he authored. This one (1) man we add the M (13) letter and the L (12) letter and it's 26. Martin Luther EX-PRIEST of God split his life 31.5 years Catholic approx. to 31.5 years not. 26÷2=13. What did he create that split Christ's Church? Martin Luther Bibles, all protestants are guided by it. 6+6+6=18. This is a 13:18. Many books have verses at this location but we can only find one that also contains the 666 associated with Martin Luther.

If you are Protestant, especially a Teacher or Shepherd, you should repent quickly to The Lord as He draws near.

del_button December 23, 2015 at 10:00 PM
Sarah Hodgins said...

I am in the process of converting to Catholicism, and have been a Protestant for several years, mostly Baptist, but recently I have gone to a Lutheran/United Church (because there is no other half decent Protestant church nearby). I can honestly say that from my own studies over the years, Luther was a man who suffered extreme depression and possibly was schizophrenic. He was not a "man of God" worth following, no matter how much Protestants wish to admire him. He was a strange, violent, obscene man, known for potty humour in his sermons. Why anyone would follow him, except to share in his "freedom" from the Pope, is beyond me.

del_button December 24, 2015 at 8:52 AM
Matthew said...

Well said, Sarah. May God bless you and guide you to His True Church - the Catholic Church.

del_button December 24, 2015 at 10:10 AM
Sarah Hodgins said...

Thank you, Matthew! Here is a question that many Protestants ask, and I still wonder, that I couldn't find on your site:
What is the actual (practical) difference between worship, honour, hyperdulia, etc...I mean, how do we (and God) tell the difference? Because to Protestants, a "strong feeling" of adoration is seen as all three. This is why we are afraid of worshipping Mary too much...God won't share his glory with another, right?

del_button December 25, 2015 at 4:54 AM
Matthew said...

The word "worship" has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God.

For many centuries, the term worship simply meant showing respect or honor, and an example of this usage survives in contemporary English. British subjects refer to their magistrates as "Your Worship," although Americans would say "Your Honor." This doesn’t mean that British subjects worship their magistrates as gods (in fact, they may even despise a particular magistrate they are addressing). It means they are giving them the honor appropriate to their office, not the honor appropriate to God.

Outside of this example, however, the English term "worship" has been narrowed in scope to indicate only that supreme form of honor, reverence, and respect that is due to God. This change in usage is quite recent. In fact, one can still find books that use "worship" in the older, broader sense. This can lead to a significant degree of confusion, when people who are familiar only with the use of words in their own day and their own circles encounter material written in other times and other places.

In Scripture, the term "worship" was similarly broad in meaning, but in the early Christian centuries, theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make more clear which is due to God and which is not.

As the terminology of Christian theology developed, the Greek term latria came to be used to refer to the honor that is due to God alone, and the term dulia came to refer to the honor that is due to human beings, especially those who lived and died in God’s friendship—in other words, the saints. Scripture indicates that honor is due to these individuals (Matt. 10:41b). A special term was coined to refer to the special honor given to the Virgin Mary, who bore Jesus—God in the flesh—in her womb. This term, hyperdulia (huper [more than]+ dulia = "beyond dulia"), indicates that the honor due to her as Christ’s own Mother is more than the dulia given to other saints. It is greater in degree, but still of the same kind. However, since Mary is a finite creature, the honor she is due is fundamentally different in kind from the latria owed to the infinite Creator.

All of these terms—latria, dulia, hyperdulia—used to be lumped under the one English word "worship." Sometimes when one reads old books discussing the subject of how particular persons are to be honored, they will qualify the word "worship" by referring to "the worship of latria" or "the worship of dulia." To contemporaries and to those not familiar with the history of these terms, however, this is too confusing.

Another attempt to make clear the difference between the honor due to God and that due to humans has been to use the words adore and adoration to describe the total, consuming reverence due to God and the terms venerate, veneration, and honor to refer to the respect due humans. Thus, Catholics sometimes say, "We adore God but we honor his saints."

Unfortunately, many non-Catholics have been so schooled in hostility toward the Church that they appear unable or unwilling to recognize these distinctions. They confidently (often arrogantly) assert that Catholics "worship" Mary and the saints, and, in so doing, commit idolatry. This is patently false, of course, but the education in anti-Catholic prejudice is so strong that one must patiently explain that Catholics do not worship anyone but God—at least given the contemporary use of the term. The Church is very strict about the fact that latria, adoration—what contemporary English speakers call "worship"—is to be given only to God.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/saint-worship

del_button December 25, 2015 at 4:56 AM
Matthew said...

Also, you may be interested in this book that I helped author:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/frances-spilman/a-step-towards-heaven-an-introduction-to-religion/paperback/product-22320940.html

Wishing you a most blessed Feast of our Lord's Nativity. Venite adoremus!

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