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Monday, August 7, 2006
Assumption Novena: Day Two
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Mary, Assumed into Heaven, we venerate you as the Queen of Heaven and earth. Your own Son led you to a throne of glory in Heaven next to His own. As you tasted the bitterness of pain and sorrow with Him on earth, you now enjoy eternal bliss with Him in Heaven. As our loving Queen, intercede for us in our needs (mention your request). We thank Jesus for having put a most beautiful crown upon you head, while all the Angels and Saints acclaim you as their Queen. O Queen Assumed into Heaven, pray for us. Amen.

7 comments:

del_button August 7, 2006 at 4:46 PM
Saint Peter's helpers said...

Thank you for joining me in this novena!

del_button August 8, 2006 at 11:01 AM
Juparis said...

Time for a discussion, wouldn't you agree? In the very least, I'm just curious to read your response:

Why is Mary your Queen?
Calling her such indicates that she is next in glory only to God. I highly doubt such a sinful human being could be such, although I believe Catholics see her as holy--is that correct?
If so, I'd ask why--why does she have to be holy to give birth to our Lord?
Wouldn't then, her parents have to be holy also, and their parents, and their parents? I'm just not making sense of it. Any explanation would be appreciated.

del_button August 8, 2006 at 11:40 AM
Moneybags said...

I'm very glad you are here for a discussion.

We believe in the Immaculate Conception. This means that at the moment of her conception, our God preserved Mary from the stain of original sin. She remained holy and sinless throughout her life. This is what we believe. She is holy and sinless.

Read here:

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2005/10/immaculate-conception.html

She is called the Queen of Heaven and earth too. We believe that after he earthly life, she was assumed into Heaven and crowned Queen of Heaven and Earth. She is not God or given anywhere near God's power. She is His Mother, and He honors Her because He is very faithful to all of the Commandments including the honoring of one's mother and father.

del_button August 8, 2006 at 10:16 PM
Juparis said...

It certainly makes sense, but I still have some questions. I haven't gotten through all of the article you posted, but I'll certainly finish it tomorrow or whenever I have time (I can only hope these questions aren't answered in the portion I didn't read):

To what you said: As man, Jesus would indeed honor the commandments, but as God, why would he still hold Mary to such high appeal? It detracts from the true focus of our worship: Jesus Christ.

A question I've always had, not from your post: The Bible states that there is no sadness in Heaven. Wouldn't it make sense, therefore, that all souls in Heaven would not be able to hear or know anything from/of Earth? Hearing, or even acting upon, these prayers would invoke sadness, don't you think?

And finally, two questions that were not answered in the linked article:
"If God had the ability to make Mary sinless without infringing upon her free will, why doesn't he do the same for all of us? It seems it would save us from a lot of unnecessary suffering, suffering which is usually explained as the consequence of free will."

"I don't understand your claim that Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to dwell in her. Doesn't Jesus dwell in us when we take Communion? We are certainly not sinless. And aren't we called "Temples of the Holy Spirit"? Again, God dwells in us and we still sin."
(originally posted by Aloria)

del_button August 9, 2006 at 7:16 AM
Moneybags said...

"As man, Jesus would indeed honor the commandments, but as God, why would he still hold Mary to such high appeal? It detracts from the true focus of our worship: Jesus Christ."

Devotion to Mary never takes away from devotion to Jesus. Everything the Church teaches about Mary leads to Jesus (CCC 487).

Remember, that Jesus is not just God. Jesus is true man and true God. And his human will is completely in union with his divine will. Even though Jesus has ascended into Heaven, he will still honor Mary because he remains true man and true God. Evidence of this is the Assumption of Mary into Heaven and her coronation as Queen of Heaven and earth.

The Bible states that there is no sadness in Heaven. Wouldn't it make sense, therefore, that all souls in Heaven would not be able to hear or know anything from/of Earth? Hearing, or even acting upon, these prayers would invoke sadness, don't you think?

I don't think it would. Remember, these people are already outside of earth and its suffering. In Heaven they will see God face to face like John, James, and Peter saw Jesus on Mt. Tabor in the Transfiguration. These holy souls will see God and that vision will bring them the greatest peace and joy that nothing could ever take away their job. Remember, that Jesus is the true joy and once we have him, nothing we hear from earth could sadden us so horribly that we are in a great amount of pain or saddness:

"I have told you this so that MY JOY may be in you and that your JOY may be complete." John 15:9-11

"I don't understand your claim that Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to dwell in her. Doesn't Jesus dwell in us when we take Communion? We are certainly not sinless. And aren't we called "Temples of the Holy Spirit"? Again, God dwells in us and we still sin."

But, Jesus is not literally born from us. He does not take on our flesh and we give birth to Him. Mary that just that. Jesus had to take on Mary's flesh and give birth to Him. If she was sinful, then Jesus would be taking on sinful flesh. But, Jesus is perfect. He and sin are the complete opposite. Jesus couldn't take on sinful flesh, so He chose His mother to be sinless. He saved her from original sin, and she remained "full of grace".

"If God had the ability to make Mary sinless without infringing upon her free will, why doesn't he do the same for all of us? It seems it would save us from a lot of unnecessary suffering, suffering which is usually explained as the consequence of free will."

God preserved Mary from falling into original sin. Imagine original sin is a mud puddle. When each of us are conceived, we fall into the puddle. God stopped Mary though.

Now, the Immaculate Conception (the Dogma) teaches that Jesus preserved Mary from original sin. It doesn't teach that He stopped her from sinning. She could have sinned, but she didn't. She was "full of grace" and did not sin her entire life. Even if Jesus did create each of us without original sin, I'm certain that we would each commit one sin during our life. And the result of sin is suffering and death. So, I don't believe it would be very useful. We would have still needed a Redeemer.

del_button August 9, 2006 at 11:29 AM
Juparis said...

I understood everything except one response, which seems to create a paradox for me (or at least, it's supporting the Da Vinci Code):

But, Jesus is not literally born from us. He does not take on our flesh and we give birth to Him. Mary that just that. Jesus had to take on Mary's flesh and give birth to Him. If she was sinful, then Jesus would be taking on sinful flesh. But, Jesus is perfect. He and sin are the complete opposite. Jesus couldn't take on sinful flesh, so He chose His mother to be sinless. He saved her from original sin, and she remained "full of grace".
For Mary to be sinless, she too had to have come from sinless flesh. And for that sinless fless to be sinless, it too would have to come from sinless flesh. This indicates a holy line--such as one described in The Da Vinci Code. I'm not trying to offend you, but it's the only image I'm getting here. A paradox, so to speak.

And if Mary was sinless, then Jesus did not come to save us all, as the Bible said. For we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Though, I was told some time ago, our inferences of the word "all" differ..

del_button August 10, 2006 at 1:34 PM
Moneybags said...

I believe that God wanted to take flesh completely as a child. He wanted to become true man and true God. So, of course God could have just made it so that Jesus was born of a sinner, He chose not to. He chose to literally take on the flesh of Mary.

You said:

For Mary to be sinless, she too had to have come from sinless flesh. And for that sinless fless to be sinless, it too would have to come from sinless flesh. This indicates a holy line--such as one described in The Da Vinci Code. I'm not trying to offend you, but it's the only image I'm getting here. A paradox, so to speak.

God preserved Mary from taking on sinful flesh when she was conceived. He intervened here and made preserved her. Why didn't He just do this for Jesus? I believe because Jesus wanted to humble Himself to the lowest level and literally take flesh from someone.

And if Mary was sinless, then Jesus did not come to save us all, as the Bible said. For we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Though, I was told some time ago, our inferences of the word "all" differ..

He saved ALL. He saved Mary at the moment of her conception from sin and she remained sinless. Yes, we have different views of "all". I go back to the original greek word "pas" which is translated as "a large amount". It does not literally mean all. Because, if we really do think of it as all, God would have to save every human person. Jesus was complete human, and He never had to be saved by God the Father. So, yes, we view "all" in that verse differently.

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